Unfiltered Thoughts About Your Emails with Samantha Burmeister

Breanna Owen (00:02)

You’re listening to Own Your Mark. I’m Breanna Owen. If marketing feels hard and something in you knows that it doesn’t have to be that way, you’re not wrong. Every episode, we’re naming what you’ve been feeling but couldn’t quite say and what it looks like when your communication is built for how you are literally wired. That’s where human design and marketing strategy meet. And that’s what we do here. It’s no accident you’re hearing this, so stick around. I can’t wait to meet you in the next episode.

I’m really fortunate to have a number of people in my life that I get to connect with and dig into the things that I love to geek out about in this business. Sometimes it is messaging, sometimes it’s emails, sometimes it’s human design specific, sometimes it’s business and it’s mindset or it’s being a mom and business and all of those fun things. I don’t take it for granted because I know how special it is, how important it is, how necessary it is to have these people that I just get to go back and forth with all the dang time, like in voxers or whatnot. It feels like an ongoing conversation.

Well, today is super cool because I am having one of those conversations with a fellow copywriter, a fellow email expert, and we are giving you a backstage pass. You get to be a fly on the wall for these conversations that we tend to have behind the scenes and we are really just letting you join in the conversation. You know, the types of conversations that usually stay behind closed doors, only this time we are flinging the doors wide open and we are telling you to come on in, take a seat, grab your popcorn and enjoy the show. And at the end of it, you’ll have to let us know what you think and if there is a specific question or topic.

that you want us to cover next because I have a feeling that this is just the first of many. So without further ado, enjoy. 

Samantha, hi. I’m so happy that we’re doing this. Bringing our boxer conversations and just adding a camera to them.

Samantha Burmeister (02:11)

Yeah, this is what your copywriter talks about behind your back in the boxer chats on the private podcast. And then sometimes we get a little spicy, like what’s difference between what you do and what I do?

Breanna Owen (02:25)

This is why there are more than two copywriters in the world is because we each bring our own different flavor and spice to the work that we do and that serves people differently.

Samantha Burmeister (02:36)

Yeah, let’s talk about our flavor and our spice and when people should reach out to you, when they should reach out to me. How’s that sound?

Breanna Owen (02:44)

that sounds great. Let’s do it.

Samantha Burmeister (02:45)

Everyone, this is Brianna Owen of Owen Your Mark. She also has an incredible podcast called Own Your Mark. And she writes emails for people using their human design. What I find interesting about what she does is not only does every individual have a human design, but their businesses do too. And when you use your human design to market your business, fill in the blanks for me. it helps me differently.

Breanna Owen (03:10)

⁓ Yeah,

when you use your human design for your marketing, your messaging, your copy, business, it helps eliminate the guesswork of 90 % of the infinite options that are out there but are really not going to work well for you and just really narrows it down so that we’re focusing on the things that are meant to because they’re based off of your own design. They’re going to land well and it’s going to feel good for you as the business owner and the writer too.

Samantha Burmeister (03:40)

What is human design?

Breanna Owen (03:41)

It is a tool, it is a resource. If you want to get into like all the technical things, it’s a cumulation of about seven different systems, the Kabbalah, the I Ching, like astrology, all sorts of different things really woven together. But it is your genetic blueprint of your personality, your characteristics, like who you were always meant to be before. Well-meaning people often, and sometimes not well-meaning.

comes in and tries to tell you who they think you should be. So this just gives us a blueprint to go back to that is just like, ⁓ this is who I’m meant to be. Acumen Design is that resource for me.

Samantha Burmeister (04:23)

love that because so often I see people on threads or people come to me and they’re like, but how do I get my personality into my copy? And I think a lot of times people don’t really know what their personality is to be able to then put it into their copy. And so I see this as a really good resource for people too to say, okay, well, this almost gives me a little bit of rules around how to be myself.

Breanna Owen (04:47)

Like I have shared before on my podcast and in other places how I was going through this self-discovery process of trying to figure out who I was. I was in my 30s at that point and asking other people hadn’t gone so well for me for the last 30 years. I wasn’t about to go ask people again, but also like, how do I know? Like, how do I know if this is right or not? There is an element of like you work out when you do a move the wrong way long enough. That’s what your body’s used to. Even if it’s not

good for your body, even if it can lead to injury, like that still feels comfortable to do that move that way. And then when a physical trainer comes in and they’re like, actually, I need you to correct your form, need to lower the weight, whatever, it’s the right way, but it doesn’t feel right the first time you do it. So you’ve got to do it long enough until your muscles relearn how to do it the right way. Sometimes if you’ve been doing things from a misaligned way,

When I say, according to your design, this is how you’re meant to show up, it might feel weird initially, because that’s not what you’re used to. But just like with exercise, when you start doing it in the right way, it feels good.

Samantha Burmeister (06:01)

There’s like 6,000 ways that I want to take this conversation. Focus on the task at hand. Use human design to write incredible emails for people so that they come off as aligned to their audience, therefore attracting the right buyers. Yeah.

Breanna Owen (06:15)

Amazing, yeah, you got it.

Samantha Burmeister (06:16)

Amazing. Okay, now do me.

Breanna Owen (06:18)

Samantha Burmeister is our resident Nomad copywriter. You help write all sorts of copy. You do sales pages and email copy and any other type of ways that people need to use words to talk about their business and how they help people in the world. A couple of things that I really love about you is one, I think with your Nomad style of life, that has really forced you to only do the things that matter. Because you have this priority,

to be able to do the things that you want with the rest of your time. And so that is so inspiring for me as another copywriter. And I think that should also be inspiring for your clients because you’re not gonna mess around and you’re not gonna do busy work and you’re just gonna get in and get the stuff done and give it back to them so that they can move on with their life and their launch and their stuff, which is so freaking cool. And I do think that comes out in your copy too because you have such a straightforward.

This is the stuff that matters. Here we go. Here’s what I’m going to give you. Like you just have such an authentic and transparent way of writing. We don’t have to try to read between the lines and worry about like, is there something else? Because no, if there was Sam would have said it. So fill in the gaps. What did I miss?

Samantha Burmeister (07:29)

think the one gap that I would point out is that I focus on selling. And it feels girly. Yeah, it’s always about conversions, but you’re totally right about being no-nonsense. Because there’s this word that has come up with the tools that are available to us of saying no fluff. And it’s like, well, that is inherently a fluffy statement. And so it’s like, you’re right. Straightforward. This is what you’re getting. This is why you should want it. Here’s the button.

go buy it, that is so my style. So thank you. I feel seen, which is literally our jobs, help people feel seen. So seen that people feel like they’re a part of their world and that the only thing stopping them from achieving their goals is hitting a buy button. Imagine just a group full of copywriters and we’re just here making everybody feel seen. We are the most visible freaking group for being behind the scenes in everybody’s businesses.

Breanna Owen (08:23)

Okay, I know you said you had a million directions you wanted to take this. I have two questions that are coming up for me. Where do we want to go?

Samantha Burmeister (08:29)

whatever comes out of your mouth. Let’s

Breanna Owen (08:31)

Okay,

here are my two questions. Would you argue that all copy is conversion copy? Like all content is really ultimately pointing to a conversion of action of some way shape or form?

Samantha Burmeister (08:43)

It should be. think we’re in businesses. We are literally wasting our time if our content is not pointing towards a solution. So I think there’s a difference. There’s like a Venn diagram of content and copy. And I actually have a podcast episode about this. Content is like this bigger thing too, because there’s visual content, there’s verbal content and content. But like if we’re just talking about the words, I have a ton of content on like threads where I’m just like, guys, I went for a walk today.

I don’t necessarily consider a marketing avenue either, but I think that we’re just doing ourselves a disservice if we aren’t leading people to a solution because while we are individuals, we’re businesses and businesses are a legal entity that stands to make money.

Breanna Owen (09:27)

Even nonprofits, you have to make money to keep serving the people that you are meant to serve. Just because you’re not trying to accumulate it into a bank account, you still need to generate income and revenue to do your work.

Samantha Burmeister (09:40)

And I know one of your specialties is onboarding sequences or welcome sequences. how do you find the balance in introducing people to what you do and being a freaking business that sells?

Breanna Owen (09:52)

Yeah, that’s a fun question because I was going to talk about how like I have such a gripe with the idea of nurture content and I’m all for nurturing. I’m not saying don’t nurture. Nurture is not the same as no selling or like lack of sales. One good example of how I use even onboarding and client journey emails to continue to sell is, so let’s say somebody hires me and has a 60 minute one-on-one call with me.

They get their initial confirmation email. They get an email four hours before and an hour before. And in the confirmation email and in the 24 hour email, I’m very clear when I say, hey, I’m so excited to be having this call with you. And I have found that a lot of clients like having more than one call with me. They like to keep working with me. And so just know that we can have more one-on-one calls. You can book another session with me.

And if one of my other services is better for you, then I will talk about it on our call together. I’m very intentionally opening up the possibility of continuing our work together, even in this onboarding process of preparing them for the call that they’ve just paid.

Samantha Burmeister (11:05)

In sales psychology, that’s called open loop marketing, which is like, absolutely. And I love that you said you’re just opening the door. You’re not shoving them through it. And I think so often when we talk about selling, it’s like this drag you by your shirt collar through that door. You’re just opening it. They know it’s not locked.

Breanna Owen (11:21)

Yeah, and creating that open loop. Like people, they don’t know what they don’t know. The work that we do as copywriters is using words to clear the path to yes. That’s how I talk about it when I’m working with people. like overcoming objections or giving them a reason to say yes, part of that is like just letting them know that the yes exists. Guess what? There’s more there than just this one thing.

Samantha Burmeister (11:46)

Yes, exactly. So you’re saying that in the welcome sequences that you write that are aligned with people’s human designs, aligned with what their people need to hear, that you’re kind of seeding it. You’re opening the door to typically a specific offer or do you say like, here’s everything that I offer in those onboarding sequences?

Breanna Owen (12:05)

favorite

phrase, it depends. We love know, it really depends on where we’re starting from and where we’re going. Where do come from? Where do you go, Cotton Eye Joe? Because if they’re starting at one spot and depending on where we’re trying to lead them to, that will tell me what makes the most sense. Maybe it’s a post-purchase sequence, maybe after they’ve worked with you, maybe that’s a good time for you to be able to say, hey, by the way, here are all of my options. But usually a business owner knows

their people and knows their client journey well enough to say, hey, at this point, these are the offers. These are the next steps that make the most sense. I also tend to look at things in a very like micro look at this and more like micro yeses along the way. I can’t remember what that’s called as far as like buyer psychology, sales psychology goes of getting them to say yes to you as many times as possible. When you’re taking a smaller look at things, one or two usually makes the most sense.

Samantha Burmeister (13:04)

So you kind of mentioned that your clients know that before they come to you. Do you also help them suss out what the best option is?

Breanna Owen (13:11)

For sure. Okay. When you’re working with clients, do you figure those things out with them too?

Samantha Burmeister (13:16)

Yeah, what I think is interesting too, because a lot of times people come to me when they’re launching. So we’re looking at like the whole thing. And typically the question is like, I don’t know what I need for my launch. And it’s like, great. I should probably have been charging separately for launch strategy. They don’t. But I think that like that strategic side is included. And I think part of the difference between just like a marketing generalist or a copywriter or your VA who you’re just like tasking to write

things and working with a copywriter is that level of strategic experience. Yeah, I’m going to sit down with you and if you’re like, just need these eight emails and this is what they say. First of all, nobody does that because that’s not when you go to a copywriter. That’s when you just tell your VA to write it or you know what to do. It’s not more strategic conversation of like, okay, this is what you’re trying to sell. Now, let me do all of this backwards and tell you the order in which I think you should do it. If I get the go ahead, then I’m to go ahead and write that. Yeah.

Same, same. There was just something in there where you kind of said something of like, they know by then what they need. And I was like, I’m gonna challenge you on that. Cause I don’t think you always know what they need.

Breanna Owen (14:22)

That’s fair. It really just depends on, usually people are coming to me and they’re like, hey, I’m at this point. And I’m like, okay, well then what service makes the most sense? And then they’re like, this one makes the most sense here. And sometimes they’re like, I need a welcome sequence. And I’m like, great, what’s it pointing to? And they’re like, I don’t know. Okay. So that’s the first thing we got to figure out is where are they going from there? And then there can be that conversation. Yeah.

Samantha Burmeister (14:48)

Yeah. So in this similar vein, something else you and I have talked about recently and our little behind the scenes of what your copywriters are talking about you behind your back, which is not in front of your face. In front of your face. Or in your ear holes. That’s what’s happening. We will see people just, I call it the spray and pray, but like they’ll just put on threads or they’ll put on, it used to be Facebook, I need a copywriter. Most recently I saw somebody post, I need a copywriter that’s really funny.

Breanna Owen (14:58)

We said what we said.

I think I saw that one.

Samantha Burmeister (15:18)

I need a copywriter who can write me a welcome sequence or I need a copywriter that I can refer to my design clients. Then you check back two days later and there’s 148 comments saying, here’s my favorite copywriter and it either feels like a popularity contest, an affiliate contest, or just like the most worthless thing ever.

Breanna Owen (15:37)

Like when you go back and you see the 140 comment, do you even bother?

Samantha Burmeister (15:41)

⁓ and I’m nosy, so I click through and I look and I see who’s been named a bunch of times, or oftentimes it’s me that’s named. And it’s not that I’m against being one of them that’s named. think there’s a bit of a gap on like, but what do really need here? You know, it’s like, I need a welcome sequence. Or yesterday I was kind of riffing with somebody who was like, I just don’t understand the point of freebies. And freebies, there’s a lot of copy involved because you put it on your opt-in page, then you’ve got your welcome sequence that leads Not to mention-

Breanna Owen (16:09)

The freebie itself, if it is like a PDF or an ebook, that’s a ton of copy.

Samantha Burmeister (16:14)

There’s copy that goes into that and your freebie should be selling your other things inside of the freebie. You provide value and there’s a lot of and there. It’s always an it depends answer and people come to you with different levels of awareness, but I think there’s a lot of unawareness out there. So when should people reach out to you? Like what do they need when they call you?

Breanna Owen (16:35)

They need to not want to guess. They need to not want to figure it out on their own. I do have a lot of people who come to me after the stuff that they’ve been doing isn’t working and they don’t know why. I’ve done all the things I’m supposed to be doing. Maybe they’ve even hired a copywriter and that copywriter wrote technically good copy and it’s still not getting the results they want. They will come to me to kind of suss it out or figure it out. They don’t really need to know anything. They just need to be open-minded and willing to like figure it out together.

Samantha Burmeister (17:08)

And I’ve mentioned your welcome sequences. What else do you write for people?

Breanna Owen (17:12)

My done for you copy is very much in email land. I don’t offer anything else other than email done for you copy anymore. The post purchase sequence, like the post service sequence is my favorite sequence to write. I think it’s the most important sequence.

Samantha Burmeister (17:29)

I feel like it’s the most forgotten. So tell me what goes in that.

Breanna Owen (17:33)

So your post purchase sequence, your post service, however it works in your business, is the series of emails that goes out after the work with you is done. Sometimes it’s a product is bought, sometimes the service, the project is over. You can think of it like an off boarding sequence, it’s a little bit like that, but I go bigger picture. So the data shows that like 70 % of your clients are willing to rehire you if given the opportunity. The problem is we don’t.

give them that opportunity to rehire us very well. And so the things that I often will put into a post purchase sequence, I use their human design to figure out how we’re going to approach this, but we are always asking for reviews. We are always asking for referrals and we are always pointing back to how can they rehire us. The other thing that I really like to do with the post purchase or post service sequence that I think gets forgotten is thinking longer term, thinking bigger picture. What’s a three month check-in look like?

What’s a six month afterwards check-in look like? Just because somebody might say, I’m good for now. I don’t need anything else at the moment. Okay, let’s ask again. I’m three, six, nine, 12 months. Let’s not miss those opportunities that were like handed to you on a silver platter because brand new clients are the most expensive and the most time consuming to get. And you have all these warm, hot leads sitting in your.

post-purchase, like, has-been-client folder to work with.

Samantha Burmeister (19:03)

Yes, they’re that much more likely to work with you again and they’re that much more likely to refer you as well.

Breanna Owen (19:10)

You don’t have to convince them of shit. Like, they know what it’s like to work with you. They have experienced it. They know what kind of work you produce. They know what it feels like to work with you. They know what they’re gonna get from it. Like, you don’t have to convince them of anything.

Samantha Burmeister (19:23)

It’s just a hey when you’re ready and you stay top of mind. I saw something recently that was like, you do off-boarding or onboarding gifts for your clients? And somebody was like, no, but I do a happy New Year’s type of thing to send them because it’s then you’re top of mind planning for your year, catching them when they’re in that mindset. And I feel like that’s very similar. It’s like, okay, yeah. So once you’ve had three months to settle into your insert service offering here that you or I wrote for.

then that makes a lot of sense of you’ve got to come back around to them when the time is most opportune. I get emails from my oil change place and their algorithm I know knows that I don’t drive that much. I work from home, grocery store in the coffee shops and all that aren’t that far away. So it has kind of figured out how often I get oil changes and hits me magically like right around the time that my oil change light comes on with a little coupon.

come visit us again. And that’s that kind of like opportunity that we should be leaning into. So yeah, I think that’s brilliant. And the statistics are on your side. Just keep talking to people once you off board them.

Breanna Owen (20:33)

you know, something either of us can be doing. So after you have like a VIP day with one of your clients or anytime somebody asks you to do a specific sequence or sales page for them, you can reach out to them three, six months later and you can even start it with a, hey, I’m just checking in and seeing how that went. How was your data? How did that go for you? Like just open the door, start the conversation just like that. And then.

When they’re like, yeah, here’s how it went or here’s what’s coming up next. Oh, that’s a really great opportunity for you to be like, okay, well, I have the IP days open if you want another one. Here you go. Just saying.

Samantha Burmeister (21:09)

to VIP days and you don’t. So what do you write and how do you write and who do you write for? Like give me your pitch. Who should reach out to you and not me?

Breanna Owen (21:16)

anything email sequence or email newsletters. I tend to have a lot of clients who come to me, they want the strategic brain and support and then I serve as their copy editor and give them that feedback. But maybe they want to write it themselves. They just want to be told what to write. I’m really good at that. One of the things that I provide that I don’t think that you provide as a service is I do a ton of foundational messaging work in packages. So if people are like, I just want to know.

Who am I talking to and what are some story content ideas? How should my CTAs sound? My path to yes package is the messaging and it is what’s the path to yes from point A to point B? What are those emails going to be? How does all of this play out? And then I write the emails. So I write welcome sequences.

follow-up sequences, client onboarding sequences, client journey sequences can be in there too. Post-purchase sequences, I tend to work with more like coaches, creatives, freelancers. Occasionally I’ll get somebody a little bit more product-based and I will write a cart abandon or a browser abandon sequence.

Samantha Burmeister (22:21)

Yeah, how long does it typically take to work?

Breanna Owen (22:23)

you. If they are just wanting like a one-on-one and get in within two weeks, my messaging stuff is about a two-week turnaround and the EZS email architect package from like our first call to you have the drafts, the copy drafts, plus 60-day process.

Samantha Burmeister (22:39)

Why should they let it take 60 days when their teenager could pull it up on ChatGPT this afternoon?

Breanna Owen (22:45)

You go for that. You try that and let me know how that works for you. It’s just all the more reason why you’ll want to come pay one of us.

Samantha Burmeister (22:55)

when you see that there’s no ROI.

Breanna Owen (22:57)

Well, that’s one of those things of what you put into it you get out of it

Samantha Burmeister (23:00)

So what I hear from you too is that like, I’ve set my business up to fit my schedule. a lot of times that is like crank out as much as I can, because what I can do really quickly is done well, and done better than most people are going to write for themselves. And that means a lot of people come to me when they’re like, shit, shit, Sam, I’m launching like next week. That was my most recent incredible client. And you see, she deserves her own podcast episode about it because wild results.

I tend to be more like vibes based. I feel like you’re very methodical, which I think is another subtle thing of like, okay, so I need somebody to write my email sequences. For me, it’s going to be more of their sales sequences, but also that’s very similar to the onboarding or the welcome sequence. So there’s some crossover there between what you and I do. But also like if you want that longer engagement, you want it to be rooted in human design. want it to be more, like I said, methodical.

If you want it more vibes and sales and go for it, then that’s probably where somebody would reach out to me because it’s like, that’s just how each of us works and why there’s room for Adidas and Nike and Reebok all in the same place. There’s space for you and me and somebody else in the copywriting space.

Breanna Owen (24:14)

Do you find that your people are pretty good at knowing who they are and knowing who they’re talking to and you’re able to extract that accurately from them?

Samantha Burmeister (24:23)

Yeah, my best clients have a shit ton of data. So typically my clients are not on their first launch. They’ve launched what they come to me to help them with before. So it’s not, I don’t have a sales page. It’s the sales page only converts at 2%. So like that client I briefly mentioned, she went from a 2 % conversion rate to a 10 % conversion rate on this last launch because we shifted all of the copy. And I’ll say the messaging behind the copy, although we didn’t do like a messaging strategy, but I was able to take client feedback for

questions like, why did you join? And then what kept you here? know, type of questions three months later. What are you enjoying? What are your results? So I can take that and make the improvement. So my people not only have like a good vibe on where their people are, but they have data. They know what has worked in the past. They know what hasn’t worked in the past. And they can typically identify like, why did I get a thousand people in my webinar? But

only a whatever percent open rate on the emails or nobody showed up to that webinar. That means we need a better show up sequence. Why did people come to the webinar, click on the sales page and not buy? It’s because we need a better sales page. It’s probably less of me digging in. I’m not going to memorize every single thing about every one of your audience members, but I am going to synthesize that information really quickly and extract the most important parts so that you get the most ROI as quickly as possible. I think I have probably honestly dilute my own abilities by saying that I’m like really vibes-based.

Breanna Owen (25:55)

You are methodical. Your method is just going so fast and it’s happening in your brain so quickly in the way that it comes out. It sounds like it’s more vibes based, but even as you’re talking, I’m like, ⁓ you are methodical here. Like, we are not going to sell your expertise and your skill short. You know what you’re doing.

Samantha Burmeister (26:14)

Like, If people want more of that back and forth experience, I offer it. It’s just a matter of making sure that the schedules and all of that align. I really thrive in that like, you’ve got a launch. I’m really good at selling.

Breanna Owen (26:28)

You do a lot of however much I can write in a set amount of time. If somebody were to give you, like if it wasn’t time-based, but it was like amount of emails based, do you have a sweet spot that you’ve noticed of like, I really think sales launches do the best in this range of emails?

Samantha Burmeister (26:50)

So funny, my podcast episode that came out on February 13th, whatever that Monday was, is a detailed description of the 40 plus emails that I think everybody should have in their lunch. So I think it’s a heck of a lot more than most people think. And I touched on this earlier where I said a lot of times people will come to me and they’re like, what emails do I need for my lunch? And then go write them.

And there are probably, I would say during a five-day open card, about 13 emails on average that I would encourage somebody to send. But like you mentioned, and that’s why I was like, yes, tell me more, the post-launch sequence and the post-purchase sequence are just as important. And honestly, an opportunity to make another 20 % on top of what you just earned. Because you’ve got people there leaning in. Your nurture, which I think we probably have a difference of opinion on what a nurture email is,

But that nurture leading up to the sale is like, you’ve got people leaning in. You’re abandoned cart sequences, even for service providers. There’s so many. But I think people’s best investment in me is those during the launch. That like 13 to 15 on average email.

Breanna Owen (28:03)

Maybe you’re just really good at attracting the people who aren’t going to push back on that, but do you have people who push back on the number of emails you suggest?

Samantha Burmeister (28:10)

Yeah, and there’s two things to that. One, the more emails you send when you’re not launching, the less weird it is to send a bunch of launch emails.

Breanna Owen (28:18)

All the snaps, all of the claps. Yes. Because I have people who are like, hey, I don’t like selling. it’s like, because you can feel how you are showing up because you want something from your people. And so that is the reason why you are showing up. If you would just show up more often, it would not feel awkward when you’re like, ⁓ and hey, by the way.

Samantha Burmeister (28:42)

Mm-hmm. And if you’re educating more than you’re pushing, if you’re telling people why they should want it more than you’re telling them what it is, it’s going to feel less salesy. And you’re not going to hate selling.

Breanna Owen (28:54)

Right. This is work that I do with my clients a lot is if you hate selling, we need to talk about this because like, so you do or you do not believe in the work that you’re doing. Yeah, people eat and sleep and businesses sell. That’s just the nature of it. If you feel bad giving people the opportunity to make their own

Samantha Burmeister (29:04)

You are not a business.

Breanna Owen (29:15)

informed consent, they’re grown ass businesses with full sovereignty over their own bank accounts. If they want to buy something, they will. And if they don’t want to buy it, they won’t. You’re not making that decision for them. You’re just giving the opportunity for them to make that decision for themselves. And so if you don’t like giving people the opportunity to buy your shit, that tells me that you don’t believe in your stuff then. And in which case, yeah, we do need to be talking about why you’re selling it if you don’t even think it’s worth

Samantha Burmeister (29:42)

Again, how I was saying that like when you hire a copywriter, you’re also kind of hiring your strategist and whatever. You’re also low key hiring your mindset coach because we are going to push back. And if somebody comes to me and they’re like, I only want to send five emails in five days, I’m going to push back. But you need that. And if you don’t like it, go hire somebody off of Upwork. I don’t know what to tell you.

Breanna Owen (30:03)

I’ll let them send one a day in the middle of their lunch. The last day or two especially, I’m like, ideally we have two emails, but like last end of day, the very last day, I like to send four. I think what the problem is, like you and I both know when we say, we’re gonna send four emails, that literally just means we’re four different times we’re sending out some sort of a message to people and giving them the opportunity to click a button and do the thing. But I think other people hear like, my gosh, four really long emails.

Samantha Burmeister (30:33)

No.

Breanna Owen (30:33)

Like, it’s the last day. Like, if there’s ever a day where you’re like, I just wanted to give you one last chance, if you’re a procrastinator, buyer, like I am, here you go. It’s like two sentences.

Samantha Burmeister (30:44)

It used to be called the nine word email pretty often. It’s always longer than that. But yeah, that’s exactly it. That’s why you get one of us or one of our friends in your corner. I’m always referring to other copywriters when I’m not the person to work with. I’ve gotten on a call too and it’s like, either the vibe or they truly don’t want to sell or they want those sequences that are evergreen, like the ones that you write are not my favorite.

I like the excitement of launching. if people are in that boat and they’re like, great, Brianna’s my person because I need this, where do they find you?

Breanna Owen (31:22)

My website owinyourmark.com backslash links as one place that has all of my primary things for anybody who’s just like real curious, like what would it look like to use my human design energy type to write and inform emails. I do have a free resource there under the links where you can access that and definitely do that. If you just want to say hi, come find me on Instagram. My handle’s owinyourmark.com.

Samantha Burmeister (31:48)

Amazing. Your freebie also is one of the few free things that I’ve ever downloaded and then sat with and took notes and then when I got my next couple emails from you I sat there and took more notes. So where can we find your freebie and what is it?

Breanna Owen (32:02)

Yes, it is called the Energy Type Email Playbook. It is listed as one of those links. If you go to onumark.com backslash links, it’s right there. We can also include a link to it in the show notes for this podcast episode wherever people are listening. Part of the opt-in page is you have to fill out a form with your birth information. So your birth date, your birth time, your birth location, because that’s the information we use to pull a human design chart. And then depending on which energy type you are,

There are five energy types. So you get the report, you get the information and the ideas and the email sequence that applies to that specific energy type. So in Achiever, Copywriter, I don’t have one welcome sequence. Even that sequence alone is really five welcome sequences. I didn’t write 11 emails. I wrote 55 emails.

Samantha Burmeister (32:59)

for that. That’s amazing. she gets it. And you can find me on Instagram. I’m at nomad.copy and my website’s nomadcopyagency.com. That’s where just everything lives.

Breanna Owen (33:04)

I know you have a lot of $1 resources right now. What’s your favorite resource to point people to?

Samantha Burmeister (33:17)

I love sending people to my launch emails checklist. We’ll make sure that’s in the show notes. Accompanies the podcast episode too. So put that there. And if you use code podcast, you get it.

Breanna Owen (33:27)

Now I’m curious. you said that you loved the resource. You sat with it. You’ve taken notes on it. What has been one of your biggest or most used takeaways that you got from it?

Samantha Burmeister (33:38)

⁓ So as a 3-5 generator, I wrote down that my strategy is to respond, which basically just means give the audience what they want. I think I see that for myself and for others often and I feel like creating this, I’m going to do it. It’s like you have to be asked to create something and then people are going to buy it. That worked really well for me before I met you when I launched my podcast. People were asking me for it and so then when I launched it, people wanted to help me promote it.

even. Which I thought was just really interesting to look back on that and then to like continue seeing that pop up.

Breanna Owen (34:15)

Yeah, well, and now when you have ideas, if you’re like, ooh, this is something that I want to create, but you don’t feel like it’s been requested of you yet, you can share that idea with people and say, hey, this is an idea I have. Is this something you would be interested in? And then if they are like, yes, please do that, there’s your request to be like done. Or if you don’t get anything, it’s like crickets, you’re like noted, not going to do that right now.

Samantha Burmeister (34:40)

It was just so, not just as a copywriter, as a fellow copywriter, observing the way that you did it, but it’s like there’s so much, we talk about providing value in our nurture emails, providing value in our service, providing value. And so often we think of that as a dollar value and giving people discounts and whatever. And that rarely works. You have to build your authority by meeting them where they are.

And because yours is so specific to my human design type, it’s like, that’s the perfect example of meeting people where they are. And there’s so many ways to do that, even if you’re not in your field, even if you don’t have human design behind you. Anything else you want to gossip about?

Breanna Owen (35:20)

Yeah, absolutely.

I have so many questions. We definitely need to make this an ongoing series where we’re like, okay, now what? Other questions we could talk about in the future that we’ve touched on it just then, like nurture and value. What does that even mean? What does that look like? I’m with you on you have to warm people up before you start selling. As a copywriter, do you find it hard to do your own messaging and your own copywork? We do it so well for other people. Do you feel like you do it well for yourself too?

Samantha Burmeister (35:54)

I have so many thoughts because honestly for me it has to do with cycle and also if the weather is nice out and also is it just nice enough out that I want to be outside or don’t want to be outside. 

No, there’s so much there. I think that opens a good door for folks who are listening can tell us what they want to know. What are the behind the scenes things? Because I think there’s a lot to agree and disagree on with like, should you be selling as you nurture? How much do they have to be warmed up? Are you doing them a disservice by not selling right away?

Breanna Owen (36:24)

I have thought.

Samantha Burmeister (36:25)

I have so many thoughts. So stay tuned for part two and reach out and let us know what you want to hear because it could get spicy up in here.

Breanna Owen (36:34)

We love to dish and spill all the tea and give you all the backstage, behind the scenes, fly on the wall, insights of what is it like when two copywriters start talking about our stuff.

Samantha Burmeister (36:44)

Absolutely. So thank you for hanging out. And we’ll see where this takes us.

Breanna Owen (36:48)

That’s it for today. If something landed, give it space to settle and trust in the timing of clarity. If you were thinking of someone specific during this episode, now’s a great time to share it with them. Here’s to more fully owning your mark. Until next time.